[Fitness] Supplements

[digitaldiscipline]

(ostensibly for the folks on the [Fitness] filter, but viewable to everyone; if you want on the filter and aren't already seeing the clever-yet-stylish icon above a couple times a week, pipe up)

henceforth, bathalamus' whoring for BioTest's Tawdry Wares:

What follows is pretty much a lengthy ad for
the supplement company I mentioned. Yes, I highly recommend them.

The supplement company baobh and I purchase from is BioTest. They
pretty much just sell online, although you can find a few of their
products at GNC (with a huge markup). BioTest runs Testosterone
Nation, which is a bodybuilding/weightlifting site. Most of the
recent articles are pretty much meh, but the stuff from 2000-2006 is
all quite good.

main site: http://www.t-nation.com/
store: https://www.t-nation.com/onlineStore.jsp

The primary products I live off of are Metabolic Drive and Surge Recovery.

MD is a standard protein shake, but it contains casein and actually
tastes good when mixed with water. Plus, it mixes up in a shaker
bottle (no blender required). Chocolate and banana are really good
and mix together well. The vanilla is tasty, but is a bit too sweet.
Kind of tastes like cake icing. But it mixes well with other flavors.
Strawberry is decent, but has a harsh after taste. If mixed with
banana, it is good, however. The orange is really good for about half
of a jug. Then it tastes like shit.

Surge is designed for post-workout use. The stuff is evilly
addictive. Tastes like shit if you don't need it, but is wonderfully
yummy during/after a hard workout. I tend to drink half of a serving
during my workout, and then the other half immediately after. I
recommend Original (angel food cake flavor), chocolate, or wild
raspberry. The vanilla is kind of nasty, and I have not tried the
root beer. Again, mixes in a shaker bottle with water.

The other things I use are Spike (I like the kind with caffeine) and
HotRox. Spike is the pill I gave you. Energy supplement, no jitters,
lasts a while, and works. It also tends to put me in a happy mood. I
use it sparingly, but it is great for times like cons when I am
running around all night. HotRox is a thermogenic and I use it during
cutting cycles. I have experimented with it, as have numerous people
I know, and we all agree that it works. Not to the amount the company
claims, but the effect is noticeable.

I have also tried
1. RezV -- Helps reduce your body's ability to use estrogen, thus
freeing up receptors for testosterone. When I used it, I had a marked
decrease in abdominal and lower-back fat (the sites men store fat if
their estrogen is a bit high). I also had an increase to my libido.
Wendi tells me I should do another cycle soon. *grin8
2. Carbolin 19 -- Supposedly helps you hold onto muscle. It is
contained in HotRox, but I have never noticed much of anything when
taking it solo.
3. Creatine -- standard micronized creatine. They only sell it
because lots of people were tired of going to GNC. It is no different
than any other brand
4. Power Drive -- Helps with concentration. Again, I have
experienced noticeable effects. I tend to use it when my brain is not
functioning. It also helps with CNS recovery after heavy lifting
workouts. I used it a lot when I was power lifting. Plus, it tastes
like Tang, and is thus yummy.
5. Flameout -- concentrated fish oil.
6. Protein Bars -- tasty, but I liked some of the old flavors better.
7. Grow -- Pure whey protein powder. Not much of a flavor, tastes
kind of like heavy cream. Useful for cooking, but I don't drink it
straight much.
I have not tried the Spike Shooters, but everyone I know that has
tried them says they are much better than RedBull, both in taste and
effectiveness.

Yes, I am a BioTest whore (I have spent over $4500 on their stuff in
the past four years). Their products pretty much function as claimed,
which is rare in the supplement industry. Plus, the shakes actually
taste good. Everyone I have introduced to Metabolic Drive and Surge
swear off other brands. Just warning you.

I also have created protein muffin recipes which use chocolate,
vanilla, and banana MD. The muffins are very healthy (good fats,
protein, very few carbs), and even my non-lifter friends who sneer at
protein shakes devour them when present. Current flavors I have
devised: chocolate, banana bread, thin mint (chocolate mint), lemon
poppyseed, and cinnamon bun. Warning: the muffins only work with MD.
I have tried them with other brands of powder, and the result was not
positive.

Comments

[sor-eye-ah.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* they make casein chewing gum in japan 'cause so many of the kids there are lactose int.

I guess it's a good binder and that's why they use it?

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I can see why protein & carb post-workout shakes are occasionally useful (basically, during very long workouts, when you really don't want to break to prep & eat food) -- although AFAIK they're not necessarily much better than an isotonic high-carb sports drink for that, as the science hasn't yet demonstrated that taking on protein during a workout boosts muscle growth; the benefits of pre- and post-workout protein consumption have been proven, though), but most of the time I'd rather get my protein & carbs from actual food than from a (however great-tasting) expensive combination of heavily processed products of industrial agriculture. Call me old-fashioned, but somehow I find that if I really want 25g of protein and 49g of carbs after a workout, a 4-oz steak, a plate of salad, and an apple are a bit more appealing. I also kinda think that the bodybuilder obsession with eating vast quantities of protein is bizarre, non-optimal for general good health, and often causes them to consume way more protein than even they need... but then, I guess my aims aren't the same as a bodybuilder's, anyway.

[baobh.livejournal.com]

IME, I don't have a whole lot of appetite immediately following a workout, or if I do and indulge in it, I feel very ill. Surge isn't intended to replace any meals, merely to supplement your workouts. I've lifted heavy with and without it, and my recovery time is much better if I use it. But, again, that's just my experience.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I know what you mean about the lack of appetite, though I have been known to eat full meals right after workouts before...

Still -- liquid-ish drink with a 2/1 balance of carbs and protein? Chocolate milk is cheap and tasty... better still, bit of yoghurt, slightly sweetened with honey, should be just as easy to digest as a shake.

[baobh.livejournal.com]

Which is fine, so long as you aren't lactose intolerant, which I am. :)

Milk is not my friend, nor is yogurt. I can handle some of it, but I still don't want anything even semi-solid in my mouth immediately after a workout.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

Fair enough, natch. ;)

I still dispute the need for 25g protein & 49g carbs immediately post-workout, at least for anyone who isn't a professional athlete -- with short CrossFit or Gym Jones type workouts, I don't see the need for more than 7-15g protein and a bit more carbohydrate, then a fuller meal a couple of hours later.

I have heard good things about BioTest products, BTW -- I'm just still aiming for the 'food from leaves, berries, lean meat, nuts, and seeds, rather than a factory' approach to nutrition.

[gatheringrivers]

If I'm not already on the filter, I'd like to be, oh fellow corpgother? :) *grins*

long rant

[bathalamus.livejournal.com]

Surge:
BioTest generally states that if you cannot afford Surge, then Chocolate Milk is an alternative, just not a very good one. Surge contains whey hydrolysate and BCAAs along with whey isolate. An analogy would be crude oil to gasoline. You can burn either, but they behave very differently in your car engine. (yes, this is not a perfect analogy, but it illustrates the point)

For research, look into John Berardi, Lonnie Lowrey, and Dave Barr.

The purpose for having the liquid rather than a solid meal is primarily digestion speed. Digesting a steak takes a lot longer than a shake. Immediately post-lifting your body is primed to intake fast-acting proteins (to speed muscle recovery) and fast-acting simple carbohydrates (to replenish glycogen and transport nutrients into muscles).

The quantities (49g carb, 25g protein) were decided upon based upon the supposition of a 200 pound individual with an intense weight lifting regimen. Obviously, the amount of powder consumed can be adjusted based upon your individual needs.

And just from personal experimentation, Surge works better than anything else. I have run the gamut from chocolate milk, to a protein shake & apple, to a steak & potato, to amino force (and other post-workout drinks). I have pretty much experimented on myself constantly for the past eight years, and Surge works.
-------------------
High protein intake

As for the "bizarre" habit of bodybuilders consuming a lot of protein, the purpose is three-fold.
First off, when lifting weights intensely you create a lot of micro-trauma in your muscles. An elevated protein intake is necessary to repair the trauma (and thus increase muscle mass). The "standard" thought that only .25-.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight are necessary was developed on non-weight trained individuals.
Secondly, bodybuilders eat a LOT of food. If a normal 2000 calorie diet includes 100g of protein (400 calories), then a 4000 calorie diet would have 200g (if scaled directly). A typical bodybuilder diet is about 40% carbs, 30% fat, 30% protein. So for a 2000 calorie diet, that is 800 calories of carbs (200g), 600 calories of fat (66g), 600g protein (150g). For a 150# person this is fairly standard, and provides 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. Many bodybuilders (myself included) aim for 1.5-2.0 grams of protein per pound.
Third, protein has a much higher thermic requirement to digest than fats or carbohydrates. Simply put, "a calorie is not a calorie". Eating 100g of protein does not have the same effect as eating 100g of sugar. This is one of the founding principles of high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate diets.
A high protein intake is correlated with better muscular growth and recovery, a lower body fat percentage, and better overall physical performance as compared to a low protein diet.

[baobh.livejournal.com]

Absolutely; my food comes mostly from Trader Joe's or our local butcher. Mm. Meaty. These are supplements, rather than out-and-out replacements. (OK, I'm guilty of replacing "real" food with protein shakes on occasion, but these are the best tasting protein shakes I've had.) I was pretty dubious about the whole Surge thing until I tried it. It made a difference in my ability to not burn out as quickly when I was pulling heavy.

Again, this is my experience, but I had some pretty fantastic gains when I went to a very protein heavy diet. A lot of my progress were newbie gains, but there was a lot of experimentation with diet throughout the time I was able to lift (for me) heavy. 20 or so pounds of gains over about 6 months with little in terms of BF% change (measured by calipers, 5 test points, which are spazzy, but better than nothing...also, there were weekly measurements and photos and...yeah, took it pretty seriously) were damn impressive to me, not to mention the strength gains I experienced. As you said, your goals and my goals are not the same, and I don't think everyone needs to have as much protein as I consume, but I know I do well and make progress when I hone in my diet with equal intakes of protein and carbs/low fat. What works for me doesn't work for everyone, and if you've got a routine that is working and your diet is dialed in to make the progress that you are wanting, more power to ya!

Dammit, I hate being gimpy. I miss moving iron around. *grumbles and sends hate at her knee* I cut you soon, bitch. I cut you!

[etcet.livejournal.com]

O HAI.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

Possibly.

I hadn't known that about the high incidence of lactose issues.

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

Yeah, some 80% or so of asians develop lactose intolerance. Also with the genetic lack of alcohol dehydrogenase.

[ladysoleil.livejournal.com]

Yep. Minorities tend to have higher rates of lactose intolerance, but it's not a guarantee. Of us three mutts, I'm the only one who is lactose intolerant. My brother and sister can shovel in ice cream at will.

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

Oh, I can shovel in ice cream at will...lactose intolerance won't stop that.

Now everyone else on the other hand.....

[sor-eye-ah.livejournal.com]

Yup... and if you don't have enough casein in your diet, you get cavaties really easily.... Ie: when I was vegan and got a mouth full of holes :P

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

Again... I'm iffy about supplementing my diet with ANYTHING, if I can get the same stuff in a natural source. This isn't just hippy crap on my part; have you read Pollan's _The Omnivore's Dilemma_? There's so much we don't know about the holistic & synergistic effects of real food as opposed to the processed stuff; all those obscure things plants contain that may be as important as vitamins, but aren't fully understood by science, yet (same way that vitamins weren't understood in the 19th century, when the chap who discovered macronutrients assumed that the right balance of each was all people needed for good health...). For a whole variety of reasons -- I will avoid supplements where I can. Admittedly I'm lucky, in that although I prefer to avoid lactose (allergic rhinitis) I can get away with it occasionally (live yoghurt seems absolutely fine, daily; other stuff, as long as I only have it a couple of times a week, not a great problem).

I've had excellent result with CrossFit + Zone diet; even after a couple of years, I'm still getting personal bests in at least one lift or other area each month (usually more). I very, very rarely use protein powders of any kind.

Sorry to hear about the knee -- can you get decent physiotherapy? Sorted out both my knees and both my ankles and my right elbow, that way, over the years...

You can work around most stuff too, of course -- Davie of CrossFit Central Scotland is kinda inspirational in that regard:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=q7PXcKhfDZU

Re: long rant

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I've read a lot of Berardi's material, and if I were a professional athlete, I'd probably follow his prescriptions fairly rigidly... though I do note (in passing, and without further commenhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=q7PXcKhfDZUt), that he's a paid writer for T-Nation (aka BioTest), and that his prescriptions for the ideal post-workout shake precisely match the relevant BioTest product...

As it is, I want health and happiness and longevity, as well as not fucking up the planet, and as far as I can see (YMMV) the best way to fit all those things into my own personal busy life is something pretty close to CrossFit + Zone diet + organic, local, unprocessed food.

About the only supplement I take regularly is glucosamine + chondroitin, because my poor old joints do very well on it (though I've found that if it were a choice between heavy squats and g&c, my knee joints do better on just the heavy squats; still, they do better still on both, so I'll keep buying the g&c). I'll occasionally go for some creatine in low doses (Berardi-style, 1 tsp a day mixed in green tea), but I don't worry too much if I run out. Right now I'm experimenting with a bit of fish oil, though I still feel that if I do my usual thing of eating 6 or 7 portions of line-caught fatty fish each week, & avoiding vegetable oil, my omega-3 ratio should be fine.

I already eat 40-30-40... but nothing like as much 4000 cals a day. I'd rather get the health & longevity benefits of calorific restriction than worry about looking good on the beach (and frankly, for aesthetics and functionality, I prefer a dancer's or athlete's build rather than a bodybuilder's, anyway).

Re: long rant

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

Sorry -- 40-30-30 (slightly drunk tonight, though I did have plenty of cold meat, cheese, and olives with my red wine).

[baobh.livejournal.com]

Nope. After consulting my MRIs, the orthopedist said that therapy would do me no good, as it's a structural problem, not a usage problem. I get to have Patellar Realignment surgery. Hopefully ASAP, as I'm in a fuckload of pain all of the time. Sitting, standing, walking. Lifting is a joke at this point.

Though my parents graced me with relatively good genetics in other aspects, they also provided me with knees that Just Ain't Right.

I'll be seeing my ortho on Friday. Hopefully we can see about scheduling my surgery in the near future, because life kinda sucks right now.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

That sucks -- I guess the only thing you can do is, as you say, hope for surgery ASAP, and then talk to specialists about how & when you can start strengthening the area enough to get lifting again. Sooner or later you'll be stronger than ever. (Tennis elbow meant I couldn't do any pressing for about 6 months -- could barely even do a couple of push-ups -- but I had a PB on shoulder press last month, so I'm finally better than where I was this time last year.)