Date/Time: 2009-06-01 18:16 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] la-trombonista.livejournal.com
That was a great post.
Date/Time: 2009-06-01 18:41 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] meiow.livejournal.com
Unfortunately, I don't think it's as simple as "increase sex education and almost all abortions will go away."

Unwanted pregnancies due to rape or incest, pregnancies where the mother's life is in danger (which is true in a very high percentage of those late-term abortions), pregnancies that need to end because the child is malformed and will not survive, etc - education would not solve these issues.

But, the irony of someone who is anti-choice yet does not promote sex education is obvious - and just as bad as those anti-choice, yet pro-death-penality people. :P
Date/Time: 2009-06-01 22:43 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] etcet.livejournal.com
I don't think it will eliminate the need - for exactly the reasons you cite - but it would, one hopes, diminish it substantially.
Date/Time: 2009-06-01 22:50 (UTC)Posted by: [personal profile] vatine
vatine: Generated with some CL code and a hand-designed blackletter font (Default)
I wish I had actual, current statistics from a country with comprehensive "early teen" sex ed (OK, it's for kids in the 14-15 age bracket) and an "easy-going" attitude to abortion (to have an abortion, you must be pregnant, you must not have passed N weeks (unless a medical necessity is at hand) and you MUST agree to at least one session of counselling, as hard-won experience has shown that this leads to less grief, later on).

Aha, found some numbers. But no actual time period. 340 abortions per 1000 live-born (in a comparison to Greenland's "more than one abortion per live-born"). I have not found hard numbers for the US, but the Guttmacher instute seem to think it's around 295 abortions per 1000 live births (combining teh abortion count from the Guttmacher page with the "live births" from this page.

So, I'd say that a more open attitude to abortions, with decent sex ed doesn't necessarily cause THAT much higher an abortion rate (though I must admit to being surprised, as I would've thought the Swedish abortion rate would be lower than the US rate, when I started checking).
Date/Time: 2009-06-02 01:50 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] meiow.livejournal.com
So, does this imply that it's not necessarily illogical to be anti-choice AND against sex education? Huh!

Interesting research!

Of course, the rates could be higher purely because of the attitude toward abortion; women who need abortions medically might not be shamed into keeping the child and risking their own lives (rather than a reflection of the better sex education programs). I wonder if the slightly higher abortion rates correlate to lower infant and mother mortality.

My mother, for instance, was denied an abortion, though the baby was born with less than half a brain (they could tell the baby was malformed via tests). The baby took two painful breaths and died. The head of the department resigned that very day, realizing the gravity of the mistake.
Date/Time: 2009-06-02 19:41 (UTC)Posted by: [personal profile] vatine
vatine: Generated with some CL code and a hand-designed blackletter font (Default)
The general attitude to abortion is, from what I can tell, more relaxed in Sweden than in the US. One may be against abortion as a personal choice, but no one is driving it as a "Big Question".

To be fair, most abortions within my extended network of contacts in ye olde countrie chose to have an abortion because of a "no! no child! not now!!!" reason, rather than a medical necessity, but as far as I understand, when it comes to a "this baby will most probably not survive long after birth", it mostly ends up in an abortion.

The sex ed is brilliant, though. Or, at least was, when I was through it. Ends with a written test, where you have to label the most important part of both male and female reproductive apparati and describe a few different methods for non-conception (and approximate failure rates when used "correctly"; and, yes, Vatican Roulette is included).
Date/Time: 2009-06-03 06:00 (UTC)Posted by: [personal profile] vatine
vatine: Generated with some CL code and a hand-designed blackletter font (Default)
I wonder if the slightly higher abortion rates correlate to lower infant and mother mortality.

I don't know if they're correct, because they look WAY too low, to me. But, according to the stats I can find, (The Swedish Statistical Bureau), there were (in the category "deaths due to complications during pregnancy or delivery") 4 deaths in 1990, 5 in 1991, 0 in 1992, 6 in 1993, 1 in 1994, 4 in 1995 and 5 in 1996 (I suspect the stats-keeping was moved to another entity after that and I couldn't seem to find a way of generating custom pulls of numbers from there).

Haven't, yet, found anything about infant mortality rates.

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