People have to come to grips with the fact that we now live in a country where anonymous tips and "civilian spying" are encouraged by the government to manage and remove threats.
This is not the country we grew up in, nor is it the country we wanted.
And IMHO when the political system provides grossly incompetent individuals as the primary party candidates - then you should expect that their paranoia (if only because they need to cover up mistakes) will drive a greater and greater intrusion into people's lives.
It's very sad and unfortunate this impacted someone who clearly meant no harm or violence toward anyone. But it is just the beginning.
It'll only get worse if Shrubya gets a 2nd term. As someone who has had an 'FBI file' for at least a decade, I can sympathize with her plight. I'll never be considered for a government job that requires *any* kind of clearance, because of it. Since the Patriot Act passed, I can only imagine how bad its already gotten. If the idiot in chief has no concerns for re-election, duck and cover.
[FWIW: I got my lovely file by being a registered member of the Communist Party, traveling to Libya, and regularly visiting 'suspicious countries']
I wish that were the case. Then we could just all vote for Kerry and the US would go back to normal... right?
But the truth is that both Bush and Kerry have a prejudice toward limited freedoms and less protection for citizens. I find it ironic that at the same time neither of them wants to remove illegal immigrants from the country, but they will strip legal citizens of every right they can lay their hands on.
In a world where anyone can speak out, in any way, politicians were bound to start to move in and censor everything possible. In a world where terrorists and fundamentalists are able to wage war without any state protection or support, the means are supposedly justified by the end result.
What no one at the political level seems ot be representing is an alternate choice. Give up on being a nice nation that gives hands out to nations and peoples all aroudn the globe. Represent our national interests, and my friggin' tax dollars, by operating like a merchant in the global economy. If we have to go save some peopel in Dafur from being slaughtered, then the Sudanese gov't will pay us back tenfold. If we have to liberate people form tyrranies they put in power or supported, then we will do so in exchange for guaranteed management of their people. And if we have to rebuild a world coalition into something functional (versus the UN which cannot even enact its own mandates never mind follow through on its threats), then call it the NWO if you must.
But in the meantime arm the American citizenry, educate them on how to protect themselves and handle emergency situations, and enforce the laws that already exist around everything from fraud to immigration to flush out the growing commonplace criminality that is becoming definitive of post-industrial western nations...
Personally, I feel that the only contact any government should have is with another government. What we need is a Responsible population unencumbered by bureaucracy, fully capable of enforcing our laws through a thorough studied acquaintance with them.
(nods) yep - Both parties are nearly indistinquishable. What seperates them is their motivation - but it still comes to control.
I prefer a small government. Foreign aid is just another word for welfare for other nations.
I would like to see people act like responsible adults. Raise kids with the understanding that they are being prepared for adulthood - not extend childhood to 21. Take responsibility for your actions.
I keep thinking I'll be glad when the elections are over - but it won't be over - no matter who wins, one side will cry and moan and the other will act like a spoiled child that will dangle their victory like an ungracious winner.
Yes, but at least you're not on the No Fly list, which is what's looking like it will happen to this woman.
Frankly, if I ever ended up on a no fly, I'd probably shoot myself and end it because regular air travel to various places is really vital to my personal happiness.
The Secret Service was doing it's job. It exists to protect the presidency, and part of that job is to investigate any and all potential threats. The guy said it himself - they were polite and cordial. They KNEW it was a waste of time, but they had to look into it. If they hadn't, and they guy turned out to be that one-in-a-million nut job with real plans, then it would be worse. This guy needs to clam the hell down - he fucked up and there is a price to pay when you fuck up. I doubt he will ever notice or be impacted by this event again. The synopsis in his file will read "Mostly harmelss" at worst.
You cannot have complete security and complete freedom. It is impossible. There is no work-around, compromise, or "plan" to make it happen. Anybody who tells you different is ignorant or lying. After 9/11 the country felt vulnerable and was screaming for more security. Thats what we got, at the expense of some freedom.
You cannot have your freedom and security at the same time. Granted, Shrub's foreign policy is generating security risks at an unprecedented rate to shore up the need for more security. THAT is what needs to stop.
I'm glad someone acknowledged this side of it. Sure, it's annoying, but inasmuch as we must be careful not to become a tyranny, there are legitimate threats against which we must defend too. Yin-and-Yang are not just paisleys worn by pretty surfer boys, they are supposed to remind us about the need for balance.
It's the same with rights and responsibilities. People complain about how this or that entity is taking away their rights, but hardly anyone says anything about what are their obligations to our society. Just look at internet downloading... Americans think it's their right to pirate music from commercial artists and it's tyranny when the people out of whose pockets they steal come after them for it? Please... lol.
Not that I think Bush is anywhere near in balance between liberty and tyranny. But hey... I have an FBI file too (doubtless now inactive and boxed up in some warehouse). They came to my kindergarden in the 70's and tested everyone for psychic powers. I guess I scored well, because they put me in a remote viewing program. lol.
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ninetydegrees
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(no subject)
This is not the country we grew up in, nor is it the country we wanted.
And IMHO when the political system provides grossly incompetent individuals as the primary party candidates - then you should expect that their paranoia (if only because they need to cover up mistakes) will drive a greater and greater intrusion into people's lives.
It's very sad and unfortunate this impacted someone who clearly meant no harm or violence toward anyone. But it is just the beginning.
(no subject)
It'll only get worse if Shrubya gets a 2nd term. As someone who has had an 'FBI file' for at least a decade, I can sympathize with her plight. I'll never be considered for a government job that requires *any* kind of clearance, because of it. Since the Patriot Act passed, I can only imagine how bad its already gotten. If the idiot in chief has no concerns for re-election, duck and cover.
[FWIW: I got my lovely file by being a registered member of the Communist Party, traveling to Libya, and regularly visiting 'suspicious countries']
(no subject)
I wish that were the case. Then we could just all vote for Kerry and the US would go back to normal... right?
But the truth is that both Bush and Kerry have a prejudice toward limited freedoms and less protection for citizens. I find it ironic that at the same time neither of them wants to remove illegal immigrants from the country, but they will strip legal citizens of every right they can lay their hands on.
In a world where anyone can speak out, in any way, politicians were bound to start to move in and censor everything possible. In a world where terrorists and fundamentalists are able to wage war without any state protection or support, the means are supposedly justified by the end result.
What no one at the political level seems ot be representing is an alternate choice. Give up on being a nice nation that gives hands out to nations and peoples all aroudn the globe. Represent our national interests, and my friggin' tax dollars, by operating like a merchant in the global economy. If we have to go save some peopel in Dafur from being slaughtered, then the Sudanese gov't will pay us back tenfold. If we have to liberate people form tyrranies they put in power or supported, then we will do so in exchange for guaranteed management of their people. And if we have to rebuild a world coalition into something functional (versus the UN which cannot even enact its own mandates never mind follow through on its threats), then call it the NWO if you must.
But in the meantime arm the American citizenry, educate them on how to protect themselves and handle emergency situations, and enforce the laws that already exist around everything from fraud to immigration to flush out the growing commonplace criminality that is becoming definitive of post-industrial western nations...
(no subject)
That's my pipe-dream and I'm stickin' to it...
(no subject)
I prefer a small government. Foreign aid is just another word for welfare for other nations.
I would like to see people act like responsible adults. Raise kids with the understanding that they are being prepared for adulthood - not extend childhood to 21. Take responsibility for your actions.
I keep thinking I'll be glad when the elections are over - but it won't be over - no matter who wins, one side will cry and moan and the other will act like a spoiled child that will dangle their victory like an ungracious winner.
(no subject)
Frankly, if I ever ended up on a no fly, I'd probably shoot myself and end it because regular air travel to various places is really vital to my personal happiness.
(no subject)
(no subject)
He pretty much sums up my say on this pretty well.
I hate to defend this, but.....
You cannot have complete security and complete freedom. It is impossible. There is no work-around, compromise, or "plan" to make it happen. Anybody who tells you different is ignorant or lying. After 9/11 the country felt vulnerable and was screaming for more security. Thats what we got, at the expense of some freedom.
You cannot have your freedom and security at the same time. Granted, Shrub's foreign policy is generating security risks at an unprecedented rate to shore up the need for more security. THAT is what needs to stop.
(no subject)
It's the same with rights and responsibilities. People complain about how this or that entity is taking away their rights, but hardly anyone says anything about what are their obligations to our society. Just look at internet downloading... Americans think it's their right to pirate music from commercial artists and it's tyranny when the people out of whose pockets they steal come after them for it? Please... lol.
Not that I think Bush is anywhere near in balance between liberty and tyranny. But hey... I have an FBI file too (doubtless now inactive and boxed up in some warehouse). They came to my kindergarden in the 70's and tested everyone for psychic powers. I guess I scored well, because they put me in a remote viewing program. lol.