Worst. Wizard. Ever.

[digitaldiscipline]

So, in and among the sporting stuff I watched this weekend, TNT was showing the LotR trilogy, albeit infested by nine bajillion commercials (more accurately, three bajillion repetitions of the same three commercials).

While watching Hey, the King's Back!, it became increasingly obvious that Gandalf the White is pretty fucking lame as a spellcaster. He made the tip of his staff glow brightly. Once. Whoop de damn do. He couldn't light the signal fire with magic. He couldn't lay waste to even a single charging goblin using magic.

The scene with the Balrog? He smacks his staff on the ground and weakens an overburdened stone arch. On top of Isengard, he talks to a moth.

The only time he came anywhere remotely close to behaving like some kind of mystical badass was the duel with Sarumon (which he lost anyway).


What kind of wizard puts all his skill points into melee combat and charisma?

Comments

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

He was a fighter/magic-user.

Remember his sword?

[etcet.livejournal.com]

So he had a sword, whoop de damn do.

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

A ranger or hunter then, perhaps? He was dual wielding =8-)

[tomakins.livejournal.com]

I think he was involved with some more major shit than we know. Both in terms of hard core magic use and hard core porn. There is a reason why he acted all wise and pure amongst all those hobbits.

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

I always imagine that Elminster is someone more like that (for those of you that read the Forgotten Realms books).

[the-yellow-king.livejournal.com]

One of those bitch-ass sorcerers they stuck in 3.0. Magic-users my ass.

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

And *HE'S* the role model. All I can think of is that he must have some kind of serious magic nerve damage and be a burned out husk. Sarumon seems kind of a pansy compared to some of the 'casters in even Shadowrun.

[dainul.livejournal.com]

Nah, Sarumon just went in more for the more subtle mind-screwy "you will agree with/believe anything I say" magic, to a very powerful degree that they weren't really able to portray in the film, unfortunately. There's a bit of it in the extended version, but not as much as the books. Why blow your enemies up when you can either a) set ravaging hordes of humans/goblins/uruk-hai on them? or better yet b) get them to murder their friends, bring you the shinies and then declare their unending loyalty to you (at which point you are free to abuse this loyalty, or kick them down a ravine and into the lava)? Even alone, he manages to persuade Treebeard to let him go, then the hobbits after he's ravaged their homes.

[dainul.livejournal.com]

that got long.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

That's because Sarumon (or, hell, Tolkien) is a wordy bastard, and made you type in his defense. ;-)

[etcet.livejournal.com]

I think that's a cop-out. Gandalf is, fundamentally, still a Man, and ought to give a shit whether or not his compatriots are going to be mauled, overrun, and subjugated by RAW, PULSING, EYEBALL-FLAMING EVIL.

Unless, you know, he's some kind of pussy.

I'll cop to not having read the books; but I find it to be rather sketchy if one of the central characters, portrayed as one of the most powerful wizards in the world, doesn't actually do anything to back up that moniker... I'm going to be suspicious.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

He doesn't need to have an I Win button, but, you know, the ability to do something relatively trivial, fantastically-speaking, like lighting a fire from twenty paces, or smiting the occasional goblin....

All hat and no cattle, as the saying goes.

Clicked here via a mutal friend

[darkguardian.livejournal.com]

Gandalf is not a man at all. He is Ainur "The Holy Ones" basically the same race as the gods. He was a lesser creation of Eru a group of magic users called Maiar.

Much of Gandalf's power is never revealed in the movies. Tolkein was very fond of subtle magic. Mental battles, wards, spells of protection, distractions it was his way to work through others. I still will never understand why they did not show more of the battle between Gandalf and the Balrog. Gandalf shattered the balrog's sword with Glamdring, and they fought on top of Silvertine for some time. Nor did they show or even ellude to the fact that Gandalf was fighting mentally with Sauron basically every minute.

When Boromir tries to take the ring from frodo...there is a whole sequence when Frodo dons the ring and becomes invisible he is near one of the Seats of Seeing. And is almost seen by the eye of Sauron. Gandalf is a long ways away and he knows about it and battles with Sauron mentally/magically to distract the Dark Lord and get frodo to take off the ring. Finally Gandalf beats Sauron and Frodo has the will to remove the ring. This is why he chooses to go the way alone after this...its never even mentioned in the movie.

ok...you probably just want me to go away now.

Re: Clicked here via a mutal friend

[etcet.livejournal.com]

no, that's actually insightful. thanks.

"i'm sorry, i can't cast fireball +38 right now, i'm busy keeping several extradimensional bad-asses from squashing Topeka."

Ok...i am shutting up after this

[darkguardian.livejournal.com]

In the movie he just isn't played up enough. Before the bridge scene with the Balrog, Gandalf magially seals a door to keep the balrog behind it. The balrog forces the door (with magic) but Gandalf Counters it. The force from the balrog and the force from Gandalf causes the room the balrog is locked in to collapse....which is what slows him down.

(btw a Balrog is also Maiar like Gandalf, they are made from the same primordial ooze. Well in this case...primordial music)

Anyway there are lots of things like that.

When they fall to the root of the moutain they hit the icy water and the balrog's flames go out. Gandalf beats a little balrog ass and the wuss runs off down a set of tunnels....exiting the moutain. Thats when they climb the Unending Staircase to Duedin's Tower on the top of Silvertine (moutain name).

The battle on Silvertine with the balrog...they fight for 3 days or something. And Gandalf basically casts the Balrog down the moutain side...into the unending staircase with such force that the balrog's body collapses the staircase sealing off Duedin's(sp?) Tower for all time. The tower was made by the Dwarves so long ago it has passed into legend even for the dwarves.

Anyway...Gandalf has some serious power. The movies just didn't do the books justice. I would say read the books...but thats a ton of reading just to make up your mind.

Re: Ok...i am shutting up after this

[ladysoleil.livejournal.com]

My geek opinion on this is that Gandalf, Faramir, and Eowyn all should have sued Jackson for defamation of character, because the movie made them all look like morons.

That's just my fangirl attitude, though.

Re: Ok...i am shutting up after this

[darkguardian.livejournal.com]

All hollywood creative freedoms considered....Eowyn should be happy she actually got her Nazgul/Witchking scene. I would have been pissy if they had messed that up.

I was honestly never a faramir fan.

Re: Clicked here via a mutal friend

[razerwolfe.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I was about to hit Reply and relay the Ainur thing, butcha beat me to it and said it all nice and simple.

[alunatic.livejournal.com]

You mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xWBnzxZPGk

[etcet.livejournal.com]

WIN. And lots of it. :-)

[the_axel]

That's where you're wrong.

Gandalf is not a man but an Istari. The Istari are demi-gods/angels (Maiar), like Sauron, sent by the gods (Valar) to help out the good guys when Sauron showed up in Dol Guldur.

His job is to point the good guys in the right direction to save the world, but not to actually do so himself.

[queencallipygos.livejournal.com]

So in other words, Gandalf was trying to stick to The Prime Directive. (grin)

[unvisable-zedd.livejournal.com]

Thank you Axel, yes, Istari, not Astari. you must think I am a terrible heathen..

[unvisable-zedd.livejournal.com]

Thats very true. Gandalf belonged to the Astari Order, and as so when they came to Middle-Earth from The habitat of their fellow Gods, they were instructed to leave a large proportion of their powers behind.

They were instructed to guide and aid the workings of men, and were not to meddle too directly.

If, Gandalf had not been deprived of his full stature, he would have been an absolute badass! And could have taken on Sauron man to man. Or should that be God to God..

[fenixinthedark.livejournal.com]

He sucked. I'm a better spell caster when I cast "control teenager" with the power words "GIVE ME THE CELL PHONE!".

[etcet.livejournal.com]

As opposed to using Control Cell Phone and GIVE ME THE TEENAGER, which never works, unless you're Mark Foley.

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

Eh, teenagers are really only useful the last two years.

[ms-cantrell.livejournal.com]

i'll admit i was a less than impressed with his bag of tricks, but it seems like a pretty accurate portrayal based on the book, so i kept it to myself. having no fancy tricks myself, i'm unsure how much work it takes to make the staff glow, so don't want to judge too harshly.

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

If you put the staff in a hot enough fire, it'll glow after awhile =8-)

It takes less effort to make Sting glow -- just find some goblinz.

[theonebob.livejournal.com]

Boy, did you just open a can of worms. To some people this is on a par with saying that Star Trek went down hill when the Klingons got ridges.

Good luck.

[mighty-man.livejournal.com]

The Klingons got ridges?

(ruffles got ridges)

[etcet.livejournal.com]

It didn't?

*ducks*

[theonebob.livejournal.com]

Not going there. I know some people who would get all bent out of shape, but personally it doesn't phase me.

As for Gandalf, I've got my popcorn and I'm just enjoying the entertainment.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

That's okay, I don't have a real stance on the debate, either... just that Jeri Ryan was the only two reasons to watch Voyager.

Besides...

[theonebob.livejournal.com]

... Harry Potter is a better wizard than Gandalf and he hasn't even graduated wizard school yet.

[razerwolfe.livejournal.com]

Ehhh, meng! Dem Klingons were much de cooler when dey were all low-rider, pissed off Puerto Rican-like swarthy bastardoes!

:-)

Personally, if I were to do a Star Trek outfit for a con, it would be an old-school lame'-sash wearing greaser klingon.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

Here from metaquotes, and I'll just say... at least, compared to the other wizards (Radagast and those two blue guys) Gandalf did something, even if his magic use was pretty minor. I mean, Radagast sat in the forest and talked to animals, and the other two aren't even really mentioned. Granted, I've only read LotR and the Hobbit, so what they did may have been mentioned elsewhere. Still, better to be a warrior-wizard and at least go charging into battle on your crazy horse without using magic than just sitting around waiting for the next meeting.

[unvisable-zedd.livejournal.com]

The Wizards Institute..

They have tea & biscuits.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha! I totally agree with you. I couldn't sit through it, honestly. *ducks quickly*

(Not stalking you. Saw you on metaquotes and had to comment.

[smaugchow.livejournal.com]

I would imagine Gandalf was largely the mystical counselr (with the occasional bad-ass tossed in for good measure) because that's what a "wizard' was back then. What other wozards of note existed when Tolkien was creating Gandalf? Merlin, of course, and he was more of the wise counselor than the fire-flinging battle-mage. "Wizards" would have been wise men, people who could control natural forces like weather and earth, who could know things the heros needed to be told, etc.

Seems to me that Gandalf was a bit of a bad-ass, historically speaking.