WTF

[digitaldiscipline]

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/1/10453/2389/196/616108

Seriously? Seriously?

I'm listening to the smart folks on my flist who explain why letting shit collapse might be a bad thing (yeah, I haven't finished stocking up on dry and canned goods yet, but I've started), but the ongoing disconnect here, coupled with what marchenland wisely observed yesterday (to wit, paraphrased: "I don't feel like we're getting the whole story here; nothing moves this fast, with so much pressure out of nowhere, without the public being left very seriously in the fucking dark about something behind the scenes that's probably really fucking important.")....

Yeah, I'm one of those angry constituents who don't want a bailout passed yet, and I think I've got a good case for my reservations.

Additional bitchery: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/30/bailout/

Or, as I said elsewhere via IM: ELECT ME GOD AND GET OUT OF THE DAMNED WAY, PEOPLE.

Comments

[auroara.livejournal.com]

I'd like to get some more information. I'd like to know why the government doesn't want to tell us or claims not to know how much this is going to be. We wanted to pick a really big number is not acceptable. The bank won't let you money without you telling them how much you want first, and we shouldn't blindly lend money either.

Show me some actual numbers, people. We should be angry. Until this shit gets a little less murky, I don't think I want to bail out anyone.

Also, I want this money paid back. If the market picks up they better not be making mega-profits without paying us back. I'm pissed off enough about the oil companies making insane profits while I'm paying insane prices.

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

The exact figure is really, really hard to pin down because we don't really know the rate at which the sub-prime loans go bad. We've got decades of history with traditional mortgages, we know how SOME sub-prime loans go, but there's been a LOT of wierd mortgages written in the past five years, and many of them are wierder than we've got a good feel for. Especially tricky are the ones that are basically interest-only with giant balloon payments at the end that were written with the presumption that the house would be worth much more than its purchase price in 10-20 years, which may or may not be true. We don't know how many of those are written either, and they can be ticking timebombs if the borrowers aren't assiduous about paying down the balloon at the end.

[auroara.livejournal.com]

While I understand all of that, they are going to have to come up with some real number. It's simply not acceptable to say "bail us out" for some unknown number. How can we make an educated decision if we don't have all the facts? That's all I'm saying. I don't want to be held responsible for some unknown number. If there is no number that we can come to then we need to at the very least come to a number that we limit it to.

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry that you don't find it acceptable. Unfortunately, the number isn't knowable until it's over, just like the 1989 version didn't know that the total would be until the Resolution Trust Corporation finished its job. It was originally stated in 1989 that $50 billion would take care of it. Two years later, RTC asked Congress for another $77 billion. By the time it was done, $160 billion was spent.

[auroara.livejournal.com]

It is simply my opinion, and clearly not a directive from on high. I don't think attempting to set limits is unwise. It is clear to me that just making things up really helped to get us here and it's doubtful that it will be helpful in getting us out. I'd rather the bail out be well thought out and responsible and not a knee jerk reaction.

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

It's the internets; everyone may as well have a directive from on-high.

More seriously, I think essentially we're in a situation very, very much like twenty years ago, with the same threats, same causes, same goddamned *people* involved (Oh, look, a Bush and a Keating Five member!), just likely a different SCALE. And I think similar solutions would work, and it'll just take longer than ten years to finish cleaning up. We got a precedent; why don't we have a plan?

(And maybe learn from it this time. That'd be a win, wouldn't it?)

[auroara.livejournal.com]

For directives from on high, please see my actual blog. I'm sure there are some there as well as my usual stream of complete and utter crap.

I agree with you. This will not be fixed or cleaned up overnight. I'd love to believe we have learned our lesson, but unfortunately, only time will tell.

[y2kdragon.livejournal.com]

It's the same reason the Wizard of Oz hid behind a curtain, while using an overglorified light show to instill fear and command respect in people. If we knew the whole truth, we'd see the Emperor has no clothes on.

[auroara.livejournal.com]

I wonder who would actually be surprised to find that out?

[ruefullyamused.livejournal.com]

An extra layer of suck to this whole "I support/hate the bailout" thing is that I've got friends I hold dear who will suffer without the bailout. Their parents will suffer without it. I hate that. I hate opposing something that might them. But I've got the unfortunate and peculiar situation of a) being parentless, b) being "poor" (certainly nowhere near the $70k/year mark and trashed savings/credit), c) not having stock investments outside of my 403(b) and d) not being encumbered with a mortgage or car note. That *only* leaves me the "long view"...what I think is actually good for the country. I have no way of knowing if I'm right. I just know my thinking is clouded by things other than my personal situation.

It sucks that what may be good for the country hurts *everyone* significantly because of what "we" collectively, GOP, Dem and everything in between, have allowed to be done in our collective name.

I think letting the investment banks and whole swaths of Wall St collapse will be a bad thing. I also think we need this bad thing to happen. There's no correction in the market until it does. And I'm not convinced all stocks will suffer in the long run. As much as all this sucks, it can still be an opportunity for many. As for those of my friends and their families who get caught in the sausage grinder, I can only hope (and will do whatever I can to help whenever I can, as I'm sure we all will) they can rally and find such assistance as they need.

[paisli.livejournal.com]

Despite my concerns, I don't want this bailout passed yet either. I think it could be a good thing IF done correctly.. but honestly.. it appears that the two sides are too much bent on screwing each other vs. helping the economy, that a good, solid plan.. that will actually help the people that need it.. just ain't gonna happen. I would be shocked, except I think we've all just gotten so used to it. The truth is.. if the current administration would stop talking in such difinitives, stating they KNOW this is going to be the end of the world and everything is going to collapse if we don't do what they say (sound familiar?), this probably wouldn't be as bad as it is. But the gov't, the media.. they are scaring people more than they should be, and everyone is panicking, which is forcing the market to drop drastically. If everyone would just calm down and be a bit more rational, the reality is, the market would likely stabilize. Short-term solutions for long-term problems rarely work.. and throwing money at a problem without addressing the underlying issues, is such a lazy way to approach this, that it just wreaks of Bush.

[auroara.livejournal.com]

I hate how everything has to be done right now, with no time to research, or else we face DOOM and life as we know it will END.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I understand that ordinary people (for some values of 'ordinary people') will suffer without the bailout. If I had $700,000,000,000 spare, though, for improving the US economy, I'd give out... what would that be? About $3,000 each for every man, woman & child in the US? I think that might stimulate the economy a bit, as well as helping out ordinary people.

Unfortunately I don't believe the US government does have that much spare cash, so it's something of a moot point.

[xany.livejournal.com]

[etcet.livejournal.com]

I agree with this comic.

[xany.livejournal.com]

Pearls Before Swine is good shit.

QotD

[bitogoth.livejournal.com]

"While congressional strategies can change faster than a 17-year-old can text message..."