I do not dress to impress.

[digitaldiscipline]

This essay on men's fashion came up in two different contexts today, and it kind of hit a nerve.

I had a fairly involved back-and-forth on this article via twitter, which I will summarize here (this is reposted in its entirety (but expanded somewhat) from another friend's blog, because copypasta is what's for dinner).

I'm afraid I find no points on which the author and I could come to agreement, save that comfortable clothes are a good thing.

I honestly only kind of vaguely understood the opening paragraph as even being written in English by context. Fashion is a foreign fucking language to me. I don't know if he was talking about articles of clothing, brands, designers, or what. He might as well have been discussing Czechoslovakian playwrights of the 18th century.

I am one of those crass, tasteless louts the author derides as "Is it clean? Then it's enough." For me? Yes; if it is the former, the vast majority of the time, it is the latter as well.

My attitude towards formal attire can be summed up as:

"I will dress nicely when someone fucking dies."

Until a week ago, I owned two suits and four sport coats / blazers / whatever the hell they're called. A friend is having a garage sale, and, as I haven't worn anything but the suit since my grandfather died (several years ago), it seemed foolish to waste closet space on them (especially after trying them on and recognizing that I was a much differently-shaped guy when I got them, and now they don't simply fit poorly, they barely fit at all. You know that standard literary trope of describing the hired goons/thugs/bodyguards whose suits don't allow them to raise their arms? We're talking that level of not-fitting-ness).

I look, and feel, like the same seven-year-old who resentfully wore hard shoes and a clip-on tie to his aunts' weddings whenever I have to wear anything fancier than slacks and a polo shirt. Frankly, I resent even having to dress that nicely at my day job ("professionalism" and "dressing for success" be damned; I spend my day talking on the goddamned phone and occasionally carrying things around or mucking about under a desk).

"Dress for the job you wish you had." Okay... I'm wearing a pair of relaxed-fit jeans and nothing the fuck else; I'm dressed like a wealthy layabout who hits the gym and doesn't need to give a shit what anyone thinks of his attire. (looks like this, as of ten minutes ago, if you're curious.

Do I "look my best" in a t-shirt and jeans, shorts, or a Utilikilt? I honestly don't give a fuck. That's what I'm comfortable and happy wearing.

People tell me now nice / dashing / handsome / what-the-fuck-ever I look when I put on a shirt and tie. Bully for them, but I can't wait to take the damned things off, because they're uncomfortable, both physically and psychologically. Of course, I've done things to make the body under the clothes more presentable than the average sack of meat, so I don't feel the need to ornament (or conceal) it with fancy attire.

Guys, in the main, simply don't give a fuck how we look, or how other guys look. We appreciate how women look, and the general consensus is that, for the most part, women don't give a shit how guys look, either. For fuck's sake, people, think about how much time I spend looking at nearly-naked women; I'm not paying the slightest bit of attention to what THEY'RE wearing, what makes you think I'd give a damn what *I* have on?

I could live quite happily in nothing but a comfortable pair of jeans or a Utilikilt and some nice boxer-briefs. Sure, I'd be unfit for public consumption, but, really, other than needing to go out and buy groceries (assuming I could telecommute), I don't really have much of a need to interact with polite society anyway. As the man said, "No shirt, no shoes, no problem."

If this makes me a heathen or an uncultured throwback, so be it. I am thoroughly, stereotypically male in many respects, despite wishing my hair was still long and purple, my nails were painted black, and my tie-dyed skirts weren't falling to tattered rags.

I am comfortable with who and how I am, and while I don't begrudge the author his sartorial predilections, I refuse to be cast as some kind of second-rate being simply because I don't share them.

Comments

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

I don't dress much. I do, however, take a certain amount of pride in knowing how to. I know how to tie a four-in-hand, a half-Windsor, a reversed half-Windsor, a full Windsor, a cravat, and a bow tie. I have an extensive collection of shirt studs, collar stays, and cufflinks. I have an account at the nearest dry cleaners. I am direly looking forward to the opening of a haberdashery on the south side of Milwaukee because I'm tired of driving to Madison to look at Borsalinos.

But do I do so on a regular basis? No. Do I want to? No. It's a tremendous amount of work and has the potential to be an all-consuming hobby. I'd certainly not expect people to dedicate their time to it if they don't want to.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

I think I know the regular Windsor, but that's it. I am too warm, unless we're hanging out in a meat locker, to wear hats.

[marchenland.livejournal.com]

You're more of the half-Nelson type.

Ha*.






* The Full Nelson, of course, is a Ha Ha.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

BWAHAHAHAHAH.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

I tend to notice men in well-tailored suits.

I did recognize the labels/design houses in that article, but I doubt I could succeed at a matching game of garment to label these days.

Good quality and good fit are much more important to me than the name on the label. And both of these are key to fancy clothes being more comfortable.

As far as wearing fancy clothes, I'd rather wear a nice wool suit, including tie, than wear pantyhose. My goal for next year's office party is to have a new tux (one that fits properly made of nice wool) to wear so I can be more comfortable.

[the_axel]

the general consensus is that, for the most part, women don't give a shit how guys look, either.

My experience is you're wrong on that point & that's why being able to dress fancy is a good thing. Especially in places where nobody else does.

ZZ Top knew what they were singing about.

Of course, they need to fit well, you need to feel comfortable wearing them and they should not look like they're intended for a job interview.

Also, you get better service near enough everywhere.

Final point - I completely agree with your last paragraph. What clothes a person chooses to wear doesn't define them.

[trystbat.livejournal.com]

Ditto on fit. A well-fitted suit should feel comfortable, just like shoes that fit feel better than ones that don't fit. And frankly, men have it a bit easier getting the necessarily tailoring for an accurate fit at reasonable prices than women do -- most any place selling suits these days will do a series of alternations either included in the price of the suit or for a very modest fee.

There are times & places for every type of clothing, & it pays to have an understanding of the social niceties & subtitles. Better service is the tip of the iceberg (but it's a pretty handy one to start with ;-).

[etcet.livejournal.com]

I think that no small part of my problem with wearing "nicer" clothes, regardless of how comfortable they might be (I have some very comfortable slacks, and my good shoes are probably my third-most comfortable pair of footwear, not including being barefoot), is the contextual obligations that go with needing to wear them.

[trystbat.livejournal.com]

Well, there's a payoff. Whether it's better service, not being the asshole who shows up in jeans at a formal wedding (yes, a friend of T's did that at our wedding & needless to say, he wasn't invited to anything at our house afterwards), getting promoted to management, getting laid by the chick who prefers the guys in suits over scruffy jeans & Ts, etc., etc. -- sartorial choices have always made certain statements to the world & affected how we are perceived & can help grease the social wheels or hinder them. Humans are visual creatures.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

You say "payoff" and I say "tradeoff."

People ask me what it would take to get me to move back to New York City, and I am not kidding when I say "A million dollars a year." It's the same kind of constant, nagging irritation that being forced to dress a certain way imposes, and that's akin to the management situation.

[marchenland.livejournal.com]

I absolutely disagree that women don't give a shit about how men look, or how they dress.

I think the difference may be that we don't necessarily judge ONLY on how men look.

A well-dressed man - and by that, I usually but do not always mean "anyone who isn't wearing either a blue-collar uniform or the same old boring crap - will definitely catch my eye. Eve a man wearing the *right* blue collar uniform or the same old boring crap might catch my eye. Even a man who looks good in his jeans or khakis is well worth looking at.

Of course, "good" is up for debate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, one may or may not be noticed despite or because of what one wears, but one will probably be noticed MORE if one dresses up, because women who don't care will notice no less, and women who do care will notice more. If one doesn't care to be noticed, it won't matter much. And, of course, if one doesn't want to risk being noticed by someone who cares about clothes, by all means, one should not dress up!

[etcet.livejournal.com]

That makes sens.

[fitfool.livejournal.com]

Hear hear!

I'm in agreement even though I very rarely get dressed up. I wear a dress about once every 1-3 years.

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I suspect the article writer just can't carry off his high-fashion gear as well as he thinks he can. If one thinks of oneself as a fashion fan, but gets insulted for one's dress sense everywhere one goes, it might *not* be all of the other people who are wrong about style. ;)

I wear a suit, sometimes, as you know, and I love how I detourn it innately, with hair and tattoo, even if I don't wear my New Rocks with it. But life's too short to constantly be thinking of appearance. Wear special stuff for special occasions, and everyday stuff every other day.

[shanmonster.livejournal.com]

I do notice a well-dressed man. It doesn't have to be designer duds. But yes, I notice if a man is well put together. And as a costumer, I reject the hypothesis that most guys don't care what they're wearing. More of my costuming clients are male. I play in larps and associate with SCA types, and they want their garb to look right.

I think it's disingenuous to say men don't give a fuck what other men look like. Would Conan the Barbarian have looked right wearing jeans and a tshirt? Hell, no. Clothes often do make the man.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

Actions speak louder than clothes - Schwarzenegger's characters kicked a fairly consistent amount of ass whether he was wearing a loincloth (Conan), military regala (Predator), or suburban dad mufti (Commando, The Sixth Day).

I think that dressing for a role is different than dressing for daily life (however, I won't entirely discount the argument, if someone wants to make it, that "cubicle drone" is a role to dress up for... I will just feel deep and abiding pity for anyone who needs to role-play their day job.)

[yokes1971.livejournal.com]

that was a nice sweater. doesnt that count?

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Ironically, another designer friend talked to me before about how when she spots other designers at her local fabric stores, they're always in schlumpy (did I just make that word up?) mode... I think it's "the cobbler's children have no shoes" theory at work.

Making the point: I'm currently wearing an oversized grey t-shirt with a witch on it, black pants, and hair in a ponytail... oooh, so over the top stylish! ;)

[fitfool.livejournal.com]

I have friends and family who will keep lobbying me to dress a little nicer. I have gradually and very slowly over many years managed to expand my wardrobe to the point of including more 'presentable' outfits. But one of the fashion rules I keep hearing is that one should wear clothes that you like and feel confident in. Sadly (for my fashionable loved ones), I feel most confident in jeans and a t-shirt. If I have any personal aesthetic sense, I am drawn to outfits that look rugged. I have tried on outfits in the store that I think I look awesome in but make my sisters cringe and say, "Well sure...that's a fine outfit for hiking but...we were trying to go for a LOOK here..."

Ah well. To their credit, they've managed to find me a few fashionable articles of clothing that look nice on me and are not uncomfortable so I pick from that pile of clothes whenever I think I'm supposed to look nicer than someone coming directly from the gym.

[fitfool.livejournal.com]

p.s. The explanation I've heard most often is that they think I don't wear nicer clothes due to a lack of self confidence. That I like baggy clothes because I'm trying to hide my body. No, I like baggy clothes because they're comfortable and I never have to loosen my belt because I ate too much at an all-you-can-eat buffet. If anything, I think my body looks great, so great that it's plenty obvious without needing to wear tight clothes.